Asia Expats Forum

Alan Stepney · Centurion Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 853 Location:

Freedom 1
Freedom? Not here!

One of England’s (1) greatest strengths, and one of Britains finest gifts to its former colonies and to much of the World, has always been freedom.
This freedom has been enshrined in the laws of many countries, and many have been encompassed by International Laws.

What are these freedoms I am talking about?

Freedom from tyranny, freedom from the excesses of the rulers, freedom of worship,
freedom from false trial and imprisonment, freedom to vote for whomsoever one chose, freedom from foreign domination, presumption of innocence until proven guilty, trial by a jury of ones peers, and other freedoms, for many years taken to be so common that they are an accepted fact of life for many peoples throughout the world.

Such freedoms have been hard-earned, over many centuries, and many people have given their lives so that others, at the time and in the future, can be free.

One of the first major steps on the long road to freedom, and the basis of English constitutional liberties
was the document named Magna Carta, signed by King John in the year 1215.
This guaranteed certain rights , and regularised the judicial system. It also abolished many abuses that were common at the time.
No one was to be condemned on rumour or suspicion, but only on the evidence of credible witnesses.
It guaranteed that life, liberty, and property were not to be taken without judgement of the person’s peers and only by process of the law of the land.

Three great revolutions helped to define individual liberty and ensure its preservation, the Bill of Rights, adopted by the English parliament in 1689, established representative government in England.
Among other things, this enshrined in English Law, the principles of Habeas Corpus, and Double Jeopardy.
It also established Trial by “Twelve men and true”, the Jury.
(Habeas Corpus prevents the State holding anyone without trial.)
(Double Jeopardy prohibits anyone standing trial twice for the same offence.)

Now move on to the present time.

Our present government has introduced laws that change the basic fundamentals that have been part of our laws for centuries, including some of those mentioned above.

1). It is illegal to demonstrate around or near the Houses of Parliament.
One person has been holding a solitary, and no doubt lonely, vigil outside Parliament, since the inception of the war against Iraq, as his personal protest against that war.
As he was an embarrassment, the govt passed a law making ANY protests in that area illegal.
(To be strictly accurate, one can apply for a permit to hold a protest, but permission has never been and is unlikely to be, granted.)

He applied to the Courts, who ruled that the law wasn’t retrospective, and as he had been there before it was passed, he could remain.
The next move was to confiscate ALL his banners and to try to coerce him to move away.
Luckily, the press are often around, which gives him some protection, but no supporters are allowed near him, and the press has mentioned gangs of “official looking “ guys threatening him.

Now, his vigil is silent, and without any banners or slogans.
Thank goodness we still have people willing to stand up for their beliefs.

2). One new law makes it illegal for anyone to try to overthrow or replace the present government.
It could also be used to suppress any adverse comments about the government, or to jail anyone who MIGHT attempt to replace the government.
I have spoken with a lawyer who specialises in that area of law. He confirms that this, or any future government, could use that law to suppress any political opposition or to jail members of any opposing political party.

3. Double jeopardy means that one cannot be tried twice for the same crime.
Introduced in 1689, it has now been abandoned.

If you were tried in court and found Not Guilty, the government can immediately arrest you again, and commit you for another trial.
One govt spokesman said “ we can keep on doing this until we get the verdict we require”.

To make life “easier” for the government, in cases that, in their (the governments) opinion, are “complicated” or “would take up too much of the jurors time” , they can now dispense with a jury and hold the trial with a single judge, appointed by the government.

4. Habeas Corpus has, of course, been suspended for those who, it is claimed, might have a terrorist
connection.

The next trend, and one which worries many people, is that several government ministers have stated that we, the UK, may pull out of both the UN and the EU conventions and rules regarding Civil Liberties, as “the present rules hinder the government”.
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The Middle Eastern states aren't nations; they're quarrels with borders.- P. J. O'Rourke

Alan Stepney · Centurion Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 853 Location:

Freedom 2. We’re watching you.

Some months ago there was a traffic accident just east of Brighton on the south coast. One vehicle didn’t stop, but it was later revealed that the police had “followed” it for over 100 miles, by means of the cameras which are now commonplace on most roads. That same report stated that cameras were on major roads “about every 2-3 miles”.

In fact, Britain now has more “security” cameras than ANY other country, irrespective of size.
Some years ago a plan was announced to fit ALL street lamps with hidden police monitoring cameras, the reason given being that it would deter crime. When it was pointed out that hidden cameras arent a deterrent, that was changed to “it will enable the police to detect crimes”.
Now, the argument is that, “it will help in the fight against terrorism”.

All newly issued or renewed passports now have machine readable photographs, as do driving licences.
Thus the police or other authorities can point the cameras at a person, and the computers can identify them.

In a few places, trials have begun on fitting street lamps or similar items with speakers to enable the police to directly address a person.
“JOHN SMITH, WE ARE WATCHING YOU!”

Anyone who has read or seen 1984, will remember Big Brother, who did exactly the same.

It has recently been announced that the Govt is planning to use unmanned drones to monitor “some areas”, as an aid in fighting crime and, what is described as "general surveilance".
What they have been very careful to avoid is to qualify exactly WHO and WHAT is to be monitored.
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The Middle Eastern states aren't nations; they're quarrels with borders.- P. J. O'Rourke

Alan Stepney · Centurion Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 853 Location:

All vehicles are required to have a road fund licence.
(As an aside, this was introduced to pay for road improvements. Needless to say, it is now just another source of Govt income.)
To obtain a RFL, one has to produce evidence of insurance, and for vehicles over three years old, a certificate of roadworthiness MOT).
Plus, of course, the cash: now, typically around £200 (approx US$ 380).

DVLA, the Govt department concerned, has announced its intention to use satellite technology to track ALL vehicles in the UK.
They say, “they NEED to know where all vehicles are, what journeys they do, where they start and stop”.

A few years ago the Govt passed a law making it illegal to obtain number plates without producing the registration documents of the vehicle concerned, plus proof of identity and address.
The stated object was to prevent crooks from stealing cars and then changing the number plates.
Guess what happened to the car theft statistics?
Nothing.
If anything, vehicle thefts increased, and it was found that many were being stolen to order, then exported.

With, it is hardly necessary to add, false number plates.
When questioned, the Minister concerned expressed surprise that crooks would resort to stolen and fake number plates.
What planet do these guys live on?

The latest police cars have multiple cameras which view traffic approaching, on the same or other carriageways, in front, or behind of the police car.
The cameras feed on-board computers with character recognition software, which is linked to DVLA. (They also feed “raw” pictures to their control room.)
The link to DVLA automatically checks that the vehicle has current Road fund Licence, Insurance, and MOT, and if any of these are missing or incorrect, sends an automatic warning to the police car which includes the name, address and other details of the owner.
Thus, when the police stop that vehicle, they are in full possession of all relevant information about it and the owner.

The law used to be that when stopped, one had 5 days to produce the required documentation to the police.
Now, with the new technology, they know immediately if anything is missing.
Penalty?
A new law allows them to confiscate the vehicle on the spot, call for a recovery vehicle, and take the car away to be crushed.

It is an acknowledged fact that many motoring offences are committed by recent immigrants.
Most buy old almost-scrap cars never bother with insurance, RFL or MOT.
Many speak little or no English, have no fixed residence, and no idea of the laws here.
Having a car confiscated and crushed when it has cost virtually nothing is little hardship.
In fact, when they have accidents, which are common, they often “torch” the vehicle or dump it anyway.

Getting a conviction against such people is almost impossible. At least, our officials find it to be so.
Hence they are usually let off with a warning as “the time and expense of getting them to court is excessive”.
What happens if they are taken to court?
One regional court has been instructed to be lenient on recent immigrants and people from other EU countries, as, “they need time to learn our ways”.

Needless to say, that does not apply to the average law-abiding citizen who happens to transgress.
(In contrast, both Spain and France hold offenders until any fines due are paid.)
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The Middle Eastern states aren't nations; they're quarrels with borders.- P. J. O'Rourke

Alan Stepney · Centurion Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 853 Location:

During WW2, the government introduced identity cards. (I still have mine.)
It was a temporary measure, with the government of the day stating that they would be withdrawn as soon a the war ended.
It took until 1954 or ‘55 , I cant recall which, and many protests, before they were withdrawn.
Thus showing how rarely governments relinquish anything that gives them control, and also how little their word is worth.

A few years ago the present government said that it intended to introduce identity cards once again.
This time, the stated reason was “to combat crime”. That was changed to “to protect us against terrorists”, later changed to “ to prevent identity theft”.
The sole reason is that they will give the government more control over the people.

The lists of people who officially will have access to the information contained in the little “chips” on the ID cards is immense. Plus, of course, no system is totally secure, we have had recent cases of all sorts of people gaining access to so-called secret official information, and there is no reason to assume that the new computer network will be any better.

What information will these contain?
It depends upon which source you read.

Name, address, biometrics information, bank and credit card details, health record, possible links to spending patterns (via store loyalty cards and credit card purchases) tax records, travel records, criminal or civil offences.

Even in the unlikely event that the government really does need all this information, can one always assume that the information will be kept secure, and that it wont be misused or abused by this or future governments?
I don’t think so.

Within days of the release of details of the proposed ID card, several groups of criminals had produced copies, had found ways to read cards, and had, basically, torn the whole idea of security to shreds.
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The Middle Eastern states aren't nations; they're quarrels with borders.- P. J. O'Rourke

Alan Stepney · Centurion Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 853 Location:

Phones and computers.

1). Some months ago some people drove a long way to call on the son of a pal. He was out, and they had mislaid his phone numbers.
In what they thought was a vain attempt at contacting him, they called at the local police station.
The police had no record of his phone numbers, but DID have and supply the mobile phone number of his father.
The father, who is in his 80’s, has no record with the police, as, indeed, none of the family has. Neither is he a well known business man or anyone in the public eye.
He is a retired draughtsman, who spends his remaining years tending his garden.
He is not in the same area as his son, nor of the police station involved.

How did the police know his mobile number: of a phone that isn’t even in his own name?
Just an indication of the amount of information that the police have on everyone.

2). In the UK, it is illegal for the police or anyone else to eavesdrop on phone conversations.
If the police wish to listen to your conversations, they must get a judge to authorise a phone tap, and have to give the reasons for so doing.

However, by proxy, they do monitor all phone conversations, from fixed and mobile phones.

There are two US bases, one on the Yorkshire moors, one on the Welsh border, both of which are manned by the US National Security Agency.
Being US territory, they are outside UK laws. At least, for this purpose our govt SAYS they are.
These were widely reported some years ago, but with little public outcry as it was stated that their purpose was to monitor USSR and Eastern Bloc radios etc.
When last I read about them, they were alleged to employ “many thousands” and to have “some of the most sophisticated computer surveillance equipment in the world”.

There was a lengthy article in one paper about the Yorkshire one, which mentioned the massive telephone cables going to and from the nearest trunk telephone exchange, plus the microwave links to other phone exchange centres.
The cables alone were stated to be of sufficient capacity to handle “most” of the UK phone traffic.

Our governments main monitoring centre is the Government Communications Head Quarters
with its main location at Cheltenham, in Gloucester.
GCHQ grew out of the WW2 monitoring station that was set up to listen to Herr Hitler and his cohorts.
Apart from what other work they do, they have several teams whose sole task is to liase with the two US bases mentioned above.
(They also have a team to liase with the Inland Revenue, (= to the US IRS.)

So, of course, our Govt does NOT monitor our phones, at least, not directly!

As for computers, the same applies, with the addition that all ISP’s now have to retain file logs and other details of clients for 6 months, and supply them to assorted officials “upon request.”

3).Let me assume that you are a quiet unassuming middle aged guy who works for himself, repairing cars. You have been in business all your life, since completing an apprenticeship many years ago.
You have a nice little business, with many loyal clients, because you do a good job at a reasonable price.
You have never had any trouble with the law, not even a driving conviction, always paid the correct tax on time, and are a model citizen.
One day you happen to discover what the police computer has on file about you.

Your name, address, work details, personal car details, full information on the few cars you have bought and sold over the years, your ex-wifes details, those of your girlfriends, information on business associates, tax and bank records, plus much more.

And this is on a guy who has no record!!
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The Middle Eastern states aren't nations; they're quarrels with borders.- P. J. O'Rourke

Alan Stepney · Centurion Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 853 Location:

Peoples have different attitudes to smoking and smokers.
However, just for a moment, put your own view on this habit aside, and just consider the freedom aspect.

Smoking is still legal in Britain. However, legislation is changing.
Some of this legislation attacks not only those who smoke but also the basic rights of the people. Whilst it may only be used against smokers now, it could so easily be used to control other groups of people in the future.

At the present, if you are the owner of a pub, restaurant, café or club, you can choose whether or not to make that establishment non-smoking, smoking, or, as happens in many, segregate smokers from non-smokers.
After next year, it will be illegal to smoke in such places, irrespective of the wishes of the owner or the customers.
Let us assume that you run a private members-only club. Let us also assume that the members vote unanimously that smoking should be allowed.
Sorry. That will be illegal.
This is called “democracy”.

One (at least) of our towns is using anti-litter laws against smokers.
The local council employ people who walk the streets trying to spot anyone dropping litter.
The penalty is an on-the-spot fine of £75 (= approx. US$140).
Smokers have been targeted, with the claim that, “some of the ash MUST have fallen from their cigarettes and therefore become litter”.
The council employees do not have to have or provide any proof, it is their word that counts.
The only options are to pay the fine, or appeal to a court, for which the accused would need to PROVE that no ash fell from his cigarette.

Guilty until proven innocent.!!

From next year, smoking will be banned in many places. To ensure that the new laws are upheld, the government is introducing several phone lines to enable people to report those who smoke where they shouldn’t.
Some will be “freephone” lines, “as the government hopes that children will report their parents”.
There is a precedent for this, as some of you will know.

If things go the same way as they did in the past, the next step will be compulsory “retraining camps” for smokers. It shouldn’t cost the government much: British Gas will probably pay.!!

…and food.

Some children take packed lunches to school. In them is whatever their parents feel is a reasonable meal for their child.
Some schools and now inspecting these lunches and confiscating items that THEY, the school, feel are unhealthy, or when, in their opinion, there is too much food in the lunch.

(If that had happened to my kids, a court case for theft would have been instigated immediately!)

According to a Govt spokesman, “it is right that “we” should ensure that children have healthy diets, we are doing this for your own good”.
And, of course, the Govt know more about our children that do their own parents.

Although these are trivial issues, they are yet another of the ways that officialdom is “taking care of us.”
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The Middle Eastern states aren't nations; they're quarrels with borders.- P. J. O'Rourke

Simon-Hrb · Cohort Joined: 25 Mar 2006 Posts: 247 Location:

I guess that leaves me with eight and a half years left on my non machine readable passport (renewed March last year) to find myself citizenship elsewhere!

I don't think I'll ever return to "blighty", not even for a visit!
Thanks for the heads-up Alan violent

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The accidental expat

Alan Stepney · Centurion Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 853 Location:

Large numbers are leaving here as they dont like the way things are going.

Last weekend I had a call from a pal in California, who asked why they are getting such an influx of Brits moving over there.
He is British but has lived there for 30 years.

I told him a few things about the UK today, and his response was much as yours.
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The Middle Eastern states aren't nations; they're quarrels with borders.- P. J. O'Rourke

Quasimodo · Cohort Joined: 19 Jul 2006 Posts: 272 Location:

Isn't it amazing, though, that the face of the Uk is still presented as being benign . . . nice bobbies with their idiosyncratic helmets, not wearing guns, the Queen and all is happy and healthy.
In actual fact, if you look at privacy legislation, the UK probably has the most draconian and restrictive laws in Europe . . .
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Just passing through, waiting for a new home

RahulDG · Scribe Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 1218 Location:

Alan,

Great posts, and thanks for taking the time to put these on here ...

occasion

I think we can now safely conclude that democracy in the UK is pretty much dead, and so is freedom of choice/opinion/whatnot.

And where is Mr. Quibble? Laughing

Seriously, occasion

again for a great post(s)!!
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Dongguan Expat - Your online Community!

RahulDG · Scribe Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 1218 Location:

Simon-Hrb · Cohort Joined: 25 Mar 2006 Posts: 247 Location:

Well, plans are afoot and I'm sure I shall have Asian/European citizenship, elsewhere, think of the one country that spans both continents and therein you'll see the answer.

Though I frequently refer to my 'other half' as "the Missus", she isn't actually, though that's going to change next April (what ave I let meself in for?) and dual citizenship will be quite easy once the deed is done. hyp

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The accidental expat

Alan Stepney · Centurion Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 853 Location:

[quote="RahulDG"]Alan,

I think we can now safely conclude that democracy in the UK is pretty much dead, and so is freedom of choice/opinion/whatnot.

quote]

One example of democracy, in the last General Election, Blair and his cronies received between 9 and 10 million votes, out of a population of around 60 million.
OK, some are too young to vote, but even so, only a small proportion of voters wanted him.
So, he got in with a massive majority,

I will be leaving the UK, with, I admit, some regrets.My family has been here since, at least, the year 1285, before which time it is uncertain.
There are many things I like, particularly the history, but the present state of the nation is intolerable.

Yesterday I showed the above piece to a pal. His comment, not wholly in jest, was that in the present climate, if I published it on the internet or elsewhere, I would probably be arrested.
He then asked for a number of copies so he could pass them to friends. lol
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The Middle Eastern states aren't nations; they're quarrels with borders.- P. J. O'Rourke

RahulDG · Scribe Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 1218 Location:

RahulDG · Scribe Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 1218 Location: