Asia Expats Forum

Meridian · Novice Joined: 05 Apr 2006 Posts: 20 Location:

Hi everybody,

I'm brand-new to these forums and I've searched for recent information on this to no avail.

I'm wondering what the usual system is that people use who want to stay in Thailand for an extended period of time? I hope to teach English in Thailand and was planning on staying for somewhere between 1 and 5 years.

I think that some of this can be resolved by having an employer in Thailand arrange for the visa, but I'm not sure. Otherwise I think my only option is to get the non-immigrant visa for 3 months and then leave and come back after each 3 month period. Is this the only way? I don't want to break the law and leaving every 3 months seems to be quite labour intensive.

If that is the only way, does it effect your ability to rent an apartment for the longer term?

Any info on this would be greatly appreciated!

Mike · Site Admin Joined: 07 Sep 2004 Posts: 4512 Location:

Hi meridian

Ideally your employer woould arrange for your work permit and visas but that is not always the case.

going out every 3 months is not so bad--you can choose from Burma, Malaysia, Cambodia, and Laos for quick cheap visa runs.

THE resource for teachers in thailand is www.ajarn.com--you will find all the info what you need there. Just remember where you got that from. Very Happy

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toopeekaa 1 · Scribe Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 1934 Location:

Meridian · Novice Joined: 05 Apr 2006 Posts: 20 Location:

Thanks for the replies and the welcome! (don't worry Mike, I'm staying on this forum too!)

Hmmm, Background...
I've wanted to teach English in Asia ever since University, and it was my plan to do so after I finished. Before I finished University I got married so those plans were pushed to the back of my mind for 10 years. After the breakup I figured this was the perfect time to follow my earlier dreams and started looking into teaching again.

My original plan had been to go to Japan, but I found out very early on that there were many other options that had both a greater potential for banking income, as well as being more accepting of westerners. After reading many books about Japan, Korea, Singapore, Philippines and Thailand I decided that a predominately Buddhist country with a reputation of being open and accepting to foreigners was my best bet. I'd also heard that some countries were requiring TOEFL certification even if you had a University degree, but that Thailand was still happy with just the latter (although my degree is in Sociology, but I've heard that the department doesn't matter). I know that Thailand doesn't have the best banked income potential due to the lower wages, but I think at this point I'd rather be somewhere friendly instead of having the extra money.

I've never been to Asia although I have dreamed of it since I was very young. I've taken lots of different forms of Asian martial arts since I was 8 years old and idealised Asia (especially Japan) for many of my formative years.
I have been to some countries that have pollution and/or poverty problems in comparison to North America, (Haiti, Costa Rica, Honduras), so I don't think that will be an issue for me. I love real Asian food (as opposed to the Americanized substitutes found through N. America) as well as very hot spices so I look forward to the choices of cuisine in Thailand.
I think the main thing that will shock me is the population density of Bangkok. I have lived in Toronto (Pop. 2.5 Million) but Bangkok has more people (Pop. 6.5Million) in a smaller space so that may freak me out a bit.

Although the number of people seems daunting to me, I think I'd like to start teaching in Bangkok until my grasp of Thai becomes better. Then I may head to Chiang Mai, but I'd like to travel around a bit before deciding.
I haven't connected with any potential employers yet as I am in the process of selling my house here, and I've heard that it is not uncommon for people to be asked to leave for Thailand immediately once they've contacted an employer. I'm mainly interested in teaching older kids or adults, I have assisted in teaching a special needs grade 2 class, but I prefer teaching people who are more than 10 years old. My ideal job would be teaching pronunciation to business people, but I have no idea how to go about finding a job like that. I plan to start contacting employers once my house has sold and even if I don't find anything from my inquiries here, I would like to leave for Thailand anyway and try to find something once I am there.

The other main reason I chose Thailand is the quality of the rock climbing there. I've been an avid rock climber for the past 10 years and I look forward to getting the chance to climb in Thailand. I also enjoy cycling but I don't think Bangkok would be the healthiest place to do that. If I can find an apartment that is on the rail line or subway but is far enough out of downtown to allow me to cycle without breathing a lot of exhaust, I'll definitely do it.

Aside from my questions about Visas, (Is it legal to leave every 3 months and return? Would that affect a long term apartment rental?), I'm also interested in what area of Bangkok is the best to live in if you want to be away from as much of the pollution and noise as possible but also want to be on the rail or subway line, and what companies are the best to work for in regards to teaching English.

Thanks again for the replies, I'm sure I'll be on here asking for information and opinions quite often for the next while!

KoratCat · Centurion Joined: 26 Mar 2006 Posts: 640 Location:

Hi Meridian,

you should definitely first have an extensive look around before making a decision; things might be very different from what you are used to.

And the visa will certainly be your biggest problem. Look carefully into that and don't expect it to be "logic". For example I was thinking too that the school I started teaching at could do something for me; they definitely tried. But at the immigration office they didn't mind their pleas at all. I had to get my visa another way. Situation resolved after one and a half years when I married a thai girl anyway.

Work permit? No problem - if you have a visa for a year already. And at that time the 3-months visa was still easy to get. In and out of the country now for a free and easy 30-days stamp? Kinda busy! And the countries to exit to might require a visa too. Costs money mainly!

As far as teaching is concerned, it might not be like the school you went to. When a thai friend of mine took me to his principal at a big catholic school 16 years ago, the sister hired me on the spot without any credentials or resumee. I replaced an Australian who was happy to finally be allowed to retire at age 75. I was the only farang teaching there. Pay was a lot better than I had expected. Question

Teaching: they put 21 hours on my weekly schedule. Each "group" from 8th to 12th grade just one hour a week. Thai regulations demanded the "classes" not to be larger than 45 students. So how come I had around 60 sqeezing in one cubicle? Simple: "Due to the shortage of rooms they formed 9 classes into six groups." I was very happy finding a chance for advancing to the academic level with about 10 - 30 students in one lecture/proseminar, in spite of getting paid much less . . . Rolling Eyes

Klaus (the KoratCat)
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Meridian · Novice Joined: 05 Apr 2006 Posts: 20 Location:

Hmm, so would I be smarter to just come over to Thailand and take a TESL course there and then try to find work, or should I just use my University degree to find a job there while I'm still in Canada?

I don't mind paying to do a visa run, it just seems very inconvenient and is probably the main reason I'd try to get a job before coming to Thailand. If I could get a job somewhere that will try to get me a work visa before I come over then I would think that is the more legal way to do it.

If I were to go over and take a course there, many of the places try to find you a placement as well, and with both a degree and certification I think my choices would be rather good. I have enough money to see me through taking a course and living there for a while before I get a job, I'd just prefer to do all of this in the most legal manner I can.

Mike · Site Admin Joined: 07 Sep 2004 Posts: 4512 Location:

what is your degree in? education?

buddy of mine did his tesl here and got a job paying about 1kUS plus an apartment.

i assume you have not n\been here before
who knows maybe you will decide to start your own business here--restaurant, beerbar etc....
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Simon-Hrb · Cohort Joined: 25 Mar 2006 Posts: 247 Location:

Hi Meridian,
There are many opportunities available to study for a TESOL cert in Thailand, here's a one that I saw advertised over the weekend.

Be a Teacher in a poor Thai school and get a FREE TESOL CERTIFICATE ($1,590 value)
Cultural Extremes www.culturalextremes.comand TEFL International www.teflintl.com
Sponsored by the Thai Ministry of Education in Rayong and Cultural Extremes, the Rural Thailand Project trains and places native English speakers in small town schools in South Eastern Thailand. This project allows you to put newly acquired teaching skills to work in small Thai communities where native English-speaking teachers could normally not be afforded. At the completion of the program you are free to stay on and work if you and the school agree.
The 5-month program includes:
Internationally praised four-week TEFL International course in Ban Phe, Thailand
15 hours Thai language lessons
1 Weekend excursion
4-month teaching placement
Airport pick-up
Accommodation
Internationally-recognized TEFL International TESOL Certificate
Courses begin the First Monday of every month!
Similar programs available in South Korea, China, India and Vietnam.
Email us for more information at admin@culturalextremes.com and
www.teflintl.com

Hope this helps you some.

Ps.. Also check out the following site, it's updated daily and there's always opportunities in Thailand.
http://www.eslcafe.com/joblist/index.cgi?

occasion

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Meridian · Novice Joined: 05 Apr 2006 Posts: 20 Location:

Thanks for the links Simon, I think I'd prefer to start teaching in one of the more major cities since I don't speak Thai yet.
I looked at the job listings at the Dave's cafe link, and one thing I've seen on a few of them is that they require you to have the non-immigrant visa before they can work on getting you a work visa. This makes me think that maybe if I go to the Thai embassy here in Canada and tell them I am requesting the 3 month visa to go to Thailand to take a TESOL course, that they might be more likely to issue it? Or would that be a bad idea?

Wow Mike, where did your friend get that job? Was it one of the Universities? My degree is in Sociology with an emphasis on Statistics and Education. I have had some experience as a teaching assistant as well, but that was a long time ago so it may not be very helpful.
As much fun as it might be to run a business there, I was only planning to live there for around 5 years (but I've been warned that I would probably feel the urge to set down roots there), but who know what may happen?

I just can't wait to get there!

occasion

Simon-Hrb · Cohort Joined: 25 Mar 2006 Posts: 247 Location:

I can't really help you on the immigration issues to Thailand, I've never worked or lived there, only visited as a tourist Cool

But, if you can get in touch with a Thai embassy or consulate in Canada, explain what it is you want to do and how long you wish to stay, I'm sure they could give you the best advice possible. They'll certainly tell you what you need to know.
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Hewer · Centurion Joined: 30 Sep 2004 Posts: 545 Location:

Meridian · Novice Joined: 05 Apr 2006 Posts: 20 Location:

Thanks for the welcome Hewer!

Its not so much that I've been put off of Japan as that I've decided to start with Thailand. I still love the idea of Japan, and I plan to visit it alot while I'm in Thailand and maybe I'll even decide to try teaching there at some point.
I've just heard many stories from people saying that Japan can be a very hard country to integrate yourself into, and that the difficulties being a foreigner are multiplied there in comparison to many other Asian countries. While it may be somewhere that I'll end up eventually, I've decided to not make it my first experience.
The culture, cost of living and and places to rock climb in Thailand are what really has made me decide on it as my introduction to Asia.

Thanks for the suggestion Simon, I have heard that it is becoming difficult to get even the 3 month non-immigrant visa though, and I wonder if I give them a reason for my travelling to Thailand, if they'd then be more inclined to accept my request, or deny it because of worries that I'd be working later on then without a work permit. From some posts I've read it almost makes me think they don't want any more foreigners coming in, with all the hoops they make you jump through to just stay in the country.
I think I'm beginning to understand the paradoxes of "This is Thailand", and with so many people trying to cheat the system, I can understand why they feel the need to make things difficult. I just want to find the least difficult way to do things legally. Hopefully I can find that out from continued reading of this forum.

Mike · Site Admin Joined: 07 Sep 2004 Posts: 4512 Location:

they want the high end tourist (who doesn't?) to come in and spend a fortune, leave and come back again and again

i wonder if they ever calculated how much money is spent outside of thailand by foreigners who have to do the 90 or 60 or even 30 day visa trip
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TS247 · Novice Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 40 Location:

Just a little note to make sure you are qualified or atleast have some decent experience when deciding to live in Thailand as the laws are now becoming quite strict with not only the Visa situation but also Teaching, please read this News post below;

Qualifications of foreign teachers in Thailand must meet required standards

BANGKOK: -- Authorities concerned are believed to soon set a common standard for all local schools in recruiting teachers, including those of foreign origins, following a recent case in which an American teacher was arrested for an alleged murder of a six-year-old girl in the United States 10 years ago.

Deputy Secretary General to the Prime Minister Jakrapob Penkair said here Friday that he would meet secretary of the education minister next week to discuss standardized qualifications of all teachers in Thailand and criteria on teacher recruitments.

"All teachers in Thailand must have the same career standard, no matter what nationalities they are. We must now be serious about that," noted Mr. Jakrapob, who is also secretary of Deputy Prime Minister Surakiart Sathirathai.

Mr. Surakiart, among other tasks, supervises the Ministry of Education.

"I'll discuss with the education minister's secretary on qualifications of teachers and tuitors in Thailand, particularly those work for international schools, as well as criteria for screening their backgrounds and issuing work permits for them," he told journalists.

Mr. Jakrapob's remarks followed Wednesday's arrest of John Mark Karr, 41, who had worked as a teacher of some international schools in Thailand.

The middle-aged American was arrested by the Thai Immigration Police Bureau in a downtown Bangkok apartment Wednesday afternoon following a request by US security officials on August 11.

According to Thai Immigration Police Bureau Commissioner Lt. Gen. Suwat Tumrongsriskul, the American authorities had informed Thailand that Mr. Karr had fled the US to hide, first in Malaysia, and then in Thailand.

As the latest development, a court in Boulder, Colorado issued arrest warrants for the suspect on August 16 on charges of abduction and murder.

The arrested suspect confessed to strangling to death the then six-year-old 'beauty queen', Jon Benet Ramsey, in her home in the US state of Colorado on December 26, 1996.

The suspect said that he initially wanted to kidnap the young girl for ransom, but his demand was not met; so he strangled the kidnapped girl.

Mr. Karr left Penang, Malaysia, and entered Thailand on June 6 this year.

The immigration bureau chief said that he had ordered Mr. Karr's visa to be revoked, and that the man, found not to have committed any wrongdoing in Thailand, would be then extradited for trial in the US.

There have been thousands of foreigners working for local schools in Thailand, particularly international and language schools, a number of whom entered the kingdom as tourists with no work permits as professional teachers, according to Mr. Jakrapob.

--TNA 2006-08-18
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KoratCat · Centurion Joined: 26 Mar 2006 Posts: 640 Location: